Tough Questions for Christians #35: The "Ultimate" Sacrifice

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There was a man about 2000 years ago. He lived his life, he ended up being captured by the Romans. He was put through an assembly line of torture. He was beaten, he was whipped, and in the end he was nailed to a cross and hung there until he died.

Once he died, he descended to Hell where he suffered the ultimate punishment - complete and utter separation from God.

No, not Jesus. I'm not talking about him. He was only in Hell for about 3 days - kind of a long weekend - he went there on Friday and came back on Sunday morning. I'm talking about the guy right next to him.

The thief who didn't accept Jesus just seconds before he died.

He went through the exact same beating that Jesus did, he went through either right before or right after Jesus. The same guards whipping him with the same whip. Then being marched down the same street carrying the same sort of cross. He was nailed to the cross the exact same way Jesus was, and when he died he descended to Hell - presumably the same way Jesus did. (For those of you who believe Jesus went to Hell during his little vacation.)

While in Hell - since Hell is complete and utter separation from God - he suffered the same way Jesus did. But for some reason he goes completely ignored. His suffering was the same - actually his suffering than Jesus because he's still there.

If the story is true, he's been in Hell suffering the same emotional, physical, and spiritual torture for almost 2000 years. Jesus was there for a day and a half.

In what way was Jesus' trip to Hell and his death the "ultimate" sacrifice, when the guy right next to him went through the exact same beating and has been spending far more time in eternal torture? How is his sacrifice any less than Jesus'?

TOUGH QUESTION #35
HOW CAN JESUS' DEATH BE CONSIDERED THE "ULTIMATE" SACRIFICE WHEN OTHERS HAVE SUFFERED AS MUCH OR MORE THAN HE DID?





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Poor Apologetics 4: You Were Never Christian

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The Theist's Argument:

One of the most common criticisms I hear, not really an argument for the existence of God, but a reason to ignore anything I have to say, is the argument that I was never a Christian.

Why They Use This Argument: (What they believe)

The reason Christians find this compelling is because they say: "If you were a Christian, then the evidence of God entering your heart would have been so undeniable that you could never become atheist. You just simply couldn't do it."

I hear that all the time. And, I'm not surprised because I actually used that argument a lot back when I was a Christian, back when I was debating against atheists and against Christians from other denominations.

I would say: "Well, obviously you were never a REAL Christian otherwise you wouldn't have a problem with this." or "You would've known the answer to that." or whatever the argument happens to be.

The Rebuttal:

But it really is a bad argument. It says a couple of things. First it says that once you become a Christian you basically lose your freewill, because once you're a Christian you no longer have the ability to change your mind. You can't just say: "I no longer believe that." or "I found new evidence for that."

And - since Christians believe that freewill is really important - I don't think using an argument that completely eradicates your freewill is really the best one to use.

The fact of the matter is, to any Christians out here watching these videos, there is nothing anyone could say to you to prove that they were at one point really a Christian (or that they are now REALLY a Christian). The reason for that is, as soon as someone stops being a Christian, you immediately claim they never were one to begin with. And if YOU stop being a Christian, people will say the same thing about you.

I actually know many people who stayed in church and pretended to be believers, for years after they stopped believing, because they knew the moment they actually came out and admitted that they didn't believe the story, people would back-date their opinions all the way back to the first day they ever met them, and would claim that they were lying, and just never really were being honest.

Fact is, it doesn't matter how well you believe what you believe now or how sure you are, if you ever do change your mind, your fellow Christians around you are going to claim you never really did believe what you currently believe.

But the worst thing about this argument is: It doesn't make a difference!

The questions I asked don't make any more sense if I never believed, or any less sense if I did. They're questions showing problems within the Christian theology and the Christian faith. Yeah, they're meant to be hard, that's why the series is called "Tough Questions for Christians." They don't get any easier just because I do or don't believe them, or I used to believe, or used to not believe them. It doesn't make a difference.

The questions stand regardless of what my religion is or ever was. That's why that is another example of a very poor apologetic.

THE PROBLEMS IN YOUR RELIGION DON'T GO AWAY JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T THINK I USED TO BELIEVE THE SAME THINGS YOU DO, AND HAVE EXPERIENCED THE SAME THINGS YOU HAVE.

Tough Questions for Christians #31: Made up by Satan

I got another "Tough Question" suggestion, this one again from lazyperfectionist1. It's very well written, so I'll just read it directly from the email.

Arizona Superman has a reputation for coming up with really good metaphors and here I shall endeavor to compete.

A man on a long road trip has covered about 200 miles and notices that his fuel is beginning to run low. Finding the next opportunity, he exits and pulls into a filling station. Groaning at the price, he goes about refilling his tank.

Only seconds later, another car pulls in, parks, and the driver gets out and accosts the man, saying, “I have been driving behind you for the last 150 miles. You did all the same things I did, only sooner. You changed lanes right before I did. You merged from one highway to another right before I did. Clearly, you are following me from in front and I want to know why.”

We will come back to this in a moment. But first, please consider the following characteristics:

1. Mothered by a virgin
   
2. Born in a humble setting
   
3. Birth announced by stars
   
4. Birth attended by wise men
   
5. Birth coinciding with announcements from on high that a blessing has come to the poor world
   
6. Hunted as a child by tyrants
   
7. Grew up to perform miracles
   
8. Met with a violent death
   
9. Lay dead for three days
   
10. Rose from the grave
    

Who am I describing?

Most Christians will be very quick to blurt out a very obvious answer. Some will hold their tongues in trepidation, reasoning quite correctly that this question is too obvious and therefore must be a trap.

But let’s not kid each other here. Eleven characteristics I have listed and on each one, the very same obvious figure occurred to you. You know it, we know it, we all know it, so no one’s fooling anyone here. The real question here is what other more obscure figures might be so described [with those eleven characteristics]?

In fact, there are quite a few: Osiris, Baccus, Hermes, Mithra, Lao-tse, Fo-hi, Rameses, Apollo, Samson, Baldur, Hercules and Quetzalcoatl, every last one of them born three days after the winter solstice; a date indicated on our calendar as December 25.

Now when Christianity first began, the Pagans noticed this similarity and asked the Christians about it, and the response they received was that the Devil had foreseen the birth of Christ and forged these various imitations in advance, in order to mislead humanity sow seeds of doubt. I will now remind you of my previous metaphor. Who is more likely following whom?

So the "Tough Question" for you this time: Since stories of people with the same characteristics of Jesus' life pre-date Jesus' life by hundreds of years, do you really believe those were invented by the devil to fool Christians, or is it possible - just possible - that the story of Christ has been created, or embellished, with the characteristics of stories that have existed for a lot longer than his story has?

TOUGH QUESTION FOR CHRISTIANS # 31:
DID SATAN INVENT GOD-MEN STORIES HUNDREDS OF YEARS BEFORE JESUS, OR IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE LIFE OF CHRIST WAS CREATED OR EMBELLISHED USING PRE-EXISTING STORIES?




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Tough Questions for Christians #24: God's Glory

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All things happen for the glory of God.

We were created to glorify God.

Whenever God performs a miracle, it's for his glory.

If he answers a prayer, it's for his glory.

Everything exists to glorify God.

Ok... Why?

On Earth, here in this life, when someone is glorified it's because they do something real nice, real fancy, and everyone is impressed. Their "glory" is from the reaction of everyone around them.

A sports figure may be "glorified" because they beat a world record. A politician may be glorified because they accomplished something no one else had been able to. But the "glory" isn't in the person, it's in the reaction of everyone else.

You see, if the athlete had performed the exact same feat and no one cared, there wouldn't be any glory, because you just did something nobody cared about. Same thing with the politician.

Now with God, if all things are for his glory, then - everything exists so God can look better to you and to me?

Why does he care?

Why does he care about glorifying himself in your eyes or in mine? He's God! He's supposed to be all-powerful, and should be beyond a popularity contest.

TOUGH QUESTION FOR CHRISTIANS # 24:
WHO IS GOD TRYING TO BE GLORIFIED BY, AND WHY DOES HE CARE?

Tough Question For Christians # 22: Purpose of Eternal Life

We were created to serve and worship God, at least that's what I've been told. How weird does that sound?

You have the all-powerful creator of the universe, who is capable of speaking the entire universe into existence, but he needs servants?

What exactly are you going to do?

I mean, how do you serve someone who is all-powerful?

What exactly do you do that he can't simply do himself?

And why would he need worshiping? He knows all, and worship is simply giving him praise. You're telling him something he already knows.

So, in the afterlife, when you're there simply to "serve God" and to worship him, what exactly are you going to be doing?

What is the purpose of eternal life?

Tough Question for Christians # 22:
HOW WILL YOU SERVE GOD IN HEAVEN?

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF YOUR ETERNAL LIFE?

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Tough Question #19: Bumbling Idiot God?

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In my questions about Hell, I frequently get the response that Hell was not created for humans, Hell was created for the devil and his angels. It was never intended to hold mankind it was because of mankind’s sin that we ended up there.

And that’s a very good response, and could be a very convincing response if you didn’t claim that God was all-knowing, and all-powerful.

You see, if God was a, say bumbling idiot, and he created Hell to store the devil and his angels and didn’t realize that by making perfection the requirement to avoid Hell and then making humans imperfect would automatically condemn everyone to Hell, then you can kinda use the Bible as an example of God doing everything he can to fix his mistake and try to do something to save at least a few humans.

But, Christians don’t believe in a bumbling God. They believe in a God who is all-knowing, all-powerful, and never makes mistakes. Which means when he created Hell, he would’ve been doing so with the foreknowledge of every single soul who would’ve end up there, and he would have built it with the intent of holding those souls, and he would’ve designed it in the exact way he wanted those souls to experience eternity.

Which means God created Hell for the purpose of holding the majority of mankind and torturing them for eternity.

The Tough Question for you this time is: Which is it? Did God create Hell with the foreknowledge and the intent of burning most of humanity there, or is God a bumbling idiot who created Hell without realizing the consequences of his own actions.

TOUGH QUESTION FOR CHRISTIANS #19

Did God create Hell with the foreknowledge and intent of torturing humanity? Or is he a bumbling idiot who could not foresee the consequences of his own actions?

originally posted on YouTube at: www.youtube.com/azatheist

Tough Questions for Christians # 17: Never Heard of Jesus

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The Christian community is divided on exactly what happens to people who don't hear about Jesus. Some very Orthodox views state that these people are simply unfortunate enough to be born into a non-Christian household or non-Christian country, and unless they fix that - and become Christians themselves - they will go to Hell and be punished for their crimes — because God will only forgive Christians.

Others, like KingTheist in your responses to my questions 1 & 2, you appear to be saying the ONLY unforgivable sin is actually consciously rejecting Jesus. Therefore those who never hear about him don't have a chance to knowingly reject him. Therefore they also can be saved in the afterlife.

For those who think that someone will be tortured in Hell for not accepting a story they never heard, your God is a monster - so this question doesn't really apply to you.

For the rest of you, for those of you who believe that if someone never hears about Jesus they can still be saved, this question is addressed to you.

According to that view, people who haven't heard of Jesus are saved automatically, that means a person is born with a free ticket to Heaven because they're born without hearing about Jesus. It's only when missionaries come and tell you about Jesus that you get the opportunity to reject him. If you're never given that opportunity, then you can never consciously reject Jesus, and you can never be sent to Hell.

If that theory is correct, and people are saved - who don't know about Jesus - because they can't consciously reject him, then why would anyone knowingly spread the gospel? Why would anyone share the story with someone else and give them the opportunity to sentence themselves to eternal torture?

If people are saved without knowing about Jesus, why would you ever tell them?

TOUGH QUESTION FOR CHRISTIANS #17
If people can ONLY be damned if they consciously reject Jesus, why tell anyone about him?

originally posted on YouTube at: www.youtube.com/azatheist

Tough Questions for Christians 14: Kill Your Kids for Christ

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I’m going to step out of the Bible for just a moment, I'm going to talk about a non-Biblical belief that a lot of Christians still hold. It’s called the “Age of Accountability,” the belief that children are pure and innocent in the eyes of God, and that they will be sent to Heaven regardless of the actions they have committed.

Until they reach the Age of Accountability. Some religions have a specific date, a specific age at which this Age of Accountability kicks in. For others, it’s a general thing determined whenever the child reaches a mentally stable point.

But for some it’s a specific birthday. Imagine it’s eight years old. Your child is seven years old, it’s the day before their birthday. Right now they’re still innocent in God’s eyes, they’re pure, spotless, and clean – but tomorrow, on their birthday, they become sinful wretches who deserve the fiery pits of Hell, overnight.

It completely changes them in God’s eyes.

Now if you’re a Christian who doesn’t believe in the Age of Accountability, quit watching the video, it doesn’t apply to you. I don’t need you leaving comments saying that the Age of Accountability doesn’t exist, because frankly I don’t care.

Besides, that means you believe that God is torturing children who die before they’re old enough to accept Jesus, and that makes your God pretty much a monster. So, if that’s what you want to worship, that’s fine by me.

For the rest of you who believe that God will forgive sins for children, but won’t forgive them for adults get beyond a certain age, or children who get beyond a certain age for that matter, why don’t you kill your kids?

Look at Andrea Yates, she killed her children because she believed that God told her to. She believed it was the only way that they could make it to Heaven. And frankly, if the age of accountability is correct, then she may have been right. She may’ve done the only thing she could do to save their souls.

These children may have rejected Jesus, then gone on to do other things, and ended up burning in Hell forever. By being killed before they were old enough to be held accountable for their actions, they were rushed straight to Heaven.

In fact, if the Age of Accountability is true, then abortion doctors are bringing more souls to Christ then missionaries. If the Age of Accountability exists, then the best thing a Christian can do is become an abortion doctor, or bomb preschools or elementary schools. Kill the kids before they’re old enough to be held responsible.

It’s the only way you can guarantee that you’re bringing their souls to Christ.

Yes, you’re putting your own soul at risk, and I understand God said “Thou shalt not kill,” but you can always repent later.

It’s an amazingly selfless act to send millions of souls to be with God, and send all these souls to Heaven, and save them from the fires of Hell – while knowingly sending yourself directly to those fires.

Most parents out there would willingly jump in front of a semi-truck if it meant they could throw their kid out of the way, even if they knew it would cost them their life doing so.

Is your eternal life so much different than your physical life?

Would you be willing to cast your own eternal life to Hell in order to save your child and make sure that they got to live in an eternity of bliss? If not, why?

TOUGH QUESTION FOR CHRISTIANS #14:

WOULD YOU RISK ETERNITY IN HELL IF IT WOULD GUARANTEE YOUR CHILDREN WOULD SPEND ETERNITY IN HEAVEN?

originally posted on YouTube at: www.youtube.com/azatheist

Tough Questions for Christians #4: Torture

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Without giving it a whole lot of thought, Christians will frequently say “We all deserve to go to Hell.” “We don’t deserve salvation.” “We deserve to be tortured forever.” But do they really believe that?

I don’t think so.

You see, when there is a movie with a lot of violence, a lot of blood and gore, Christians are usually the first ones to stand up and argue and say that they don’t want that sort of thing displayed to their kids – or available for the general public to see.

But they’re also the first ones to say people deserve that sort of treatment! That pain, immense physical and emotional pain is the ONLY thing that we all actually deserve, because we’ve all fallen short of the glory of God.

There’s a movie, I haven’t seen it – unfortunately, the movie Hostel. From what I’ve heard it is a very graphic movie, with some very graphic torture scenes. People getting their legs and arms severed – really bloody, graphic deaths. A lot of screaming, and a lot of pain.

I challenge any Christian who thinks they deserve to go to Hell to go rent that movie and watch it all the way through. Sit down and watch the entire movie, and watch the way the actors portray being tortured. They’re not actually being tortured themselves, these are people, luckily, that are just acting out the part. After you’ve seen that, come back and tell me if you still think you deserve that same treatment.

I’ve seen some videos when I was a bit younger. I kind of went through a morbid phase at one point where I was renting movies like Faces of Death. I’ve seen clips of people shooting their own brains out, I’ve seen clips of people having their throats slit, arms and legs cut off while people are fully awake. It’s extremely disturbing to see that, to see the pain and torment that these people are going through.

After seeing something like that, I can’t sit by and say: “Yes, I deserve the same treatment, and everybody in the world deserves the same treatment.” The man who I watched have his throat slit, who was gurgling blood out of his neck until he finally bled out…

I don’t believe there is a single Christian out there who could watch a movie like Hostel or Faces of Death and then say: “Yes, that ten year old child who died without accepting Jesus deserves that sort of treatment. That kind and soft spoken Hindu monk who died worshiping in his own faith deserves to be burnt alive. He deserves to be screaming in pain forever.

TOUGH QUESTIONS FOR CHRISTIANS #4:
DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE YOU DESERVE TO BE TORTURED?

originally posted on YouTube at: www.youtube.com/azatheist

Tough Questions for Christians # 1: When Can God Forgive?

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Let's imagine I'm sitting at home, watching videos on YouTube, and I look out the window and watch you hit my car. Your car glances the side, it leaves an obvious blow, and there are scratches on it. Luckily, I had my web cam running and I caught you on video.

Now, let's also imagine that I decided I'm going to give you 24 hours to specifically ask me for forgiveness, and if you don't — I'm going to light you on fire, and burn you to death.

Now here's the catch — You don't know whose car it is.

You know you've done something wrong, you know you dented the car. You go around to everyone you think owns the car, you ask them to forgive you, you apologize. But you don't make it to me.

The 24 hours comes and goes, finally I confront you. I call you out, and I tell you it's "Judgment Day."

I call you in front of me, I show you the video, and I say: "Look, this is you hitting my car. You damaged it, you deserve to die."

At this point you apologize profusely saying: "I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I didn't realize it was your car. I'm so sorry, I will do anything I can to make it right."

Whereby I tell you that you had 24 hours to make it right and you failed to do so within that time frame, and now your time is up. I then promptly dowse you in gasoline, light you on fire, and watch you burn.

Now, how does this relate to God?

Well, in life we sin. We know that. Everyone does something wrong. Everyone does things wrong every single day. We're aware of that.

Supposedly God knows this. God watches over us and has sort of evidence, some spiritual recorder, which on Judgment Day he will be able to whip out and prove that we did indeed commit the crimes we're being accused of.

We only have a specified amount of time to ask for forgiveness for these crimes. If we wait until we're dead, and ask for forgiveness from God on Judgment Day, it'll be too late.

Once you're actually accused of the crimes, and you ask for forgiveness, by then there is nothing that God can do. At that point the "all-powerful" creator of the world is powerless to help you.

So you must request forgiveness from God within your lifetime. By the time he confronts you about the sins, or about the wrongs you've committed, it's too late. You're already going to be judged, the sentence has already been decided.

In my analogy, you had 24 hours. In the Bible analogy, you have one lifetime. Once the 24 hours is up, or once your lifetime is up, it's Judgment Day.

In my story, I was the judge and I lite you on fire for denting my car. According to the Bible, God is the judge and he will burn you forever for simply not believing he exists... or for any other little tiny thing you may have done wrong during how ever long you happen to live.

Fact is, in both scenarios once you were actually confronted by the person who could pass Judgment it was too late.

If you die without believing in God, he's already decided that you don't deserve happiness, and you're going to be burnt forever.

The ironic part is, the analogy doesn't need to be an analogy. You could hit my car tomorrow, die within 24 hours, and Jesus and God can sentence you to Hell because you hit the car and drove away and you didn't ask them for forgiveness before you died.

TOUGH QUESTION #1:
WHY IS GOD POWERLESS TO FORGIVE YOU AFTER YOU'RE DEAD?

I look forward to seeing the different video responses, and the comments I get. If I get good responses then I'll make these "Tough Questions for Christians" an ongoing series, and just continue until eventually people lose interest, or I just run out of tough questions.

originally posted on YouTube at: www.youtube.com/azatheist