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Once he died, he descended to Hell where he suffered the ultimate punishment - complete and utter separation from God.
No, not Jesus. I'm not talking about him. He was only in Hell for about 3 days - kind of a long weekend - he went there on Friday and came back on Sunday morning. I'm talking about the guy right next to him.
The thief who didn't accept Jesus just seconds before he died.
He went through the exact same beating that Jesus did, he went through either right before or right after Jesus. The same guards whipping him with the same whip. Then being marched down the same street carrying the same sort of cross. He was nailed to the cross the exact same way Jesus was, and when he died he descended to Hell - presumably the same way Jesus did. (For those of you who believe Jesus went to Hell during his little vacation.)
While in Hell - since Hell is complete and utter separation from God - he suffered the same way Jesus did. But for some reason he goes completely ignored. His suffering was the same - actually his suffering than Jesus because he's still there.
If the story is true, he's been in Hell suffering the same emotional, physical, and spiritual torture for almost 2000 years. Jesus was there for a day and a half.
In what way was Jesus' trip to Hell and his death the "ultimate" sacrifice, when the guy right next to him went through the exact same beating and has been spending far more time in eternal torture? How is his sacrifice any less than Jesus'?
TOUGH QUESTION #35
HOW CAN JESUS' DEATH BE CONSIDERED THE "ULTIMATE" SACRIFICE WHEN OTHERS HAVE SUFFERED AS MUCH OR MORE THAN HE DID?
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Easy Answer # 35: Jesus didn't earn his suffering.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you say that others have suffered just much, or even more than Jesus? Upon what do you base that on? Consider the scriptures:
ReplyDelete"Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned--every one--to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all...Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
"(Isa 53:4-6, 10).
What do we see in that scripture alone? We see:
1. God killed Jesus
2. God laid on Jesus all the sins of those who would believe.
Knowing, therefore, that Jesus paid for the sins of many men, how could you say that another sinner - and that sinner being one man - suffered the same as he?
I thought these were going to be tough questions. I'll get back to you when I have more time. They will be fun to answer. I look forward to becoming friends in the process.
ReplyDeleteJesus' suffering was finite. Man's potential to sin is infinite. There is an inequality present.
ReplyDeleteCould you please show me anywhere in the scriptures does it state that the other two criminals were tortured and beat like Jesus prior to crucifixion. Jesus was sinless and perfect and died anyway. In the garden where Jesus was praying to the father, He was not worried about being tortured and killed, He was worried about the Father turning His back on Him.
ReplyDeleteThe thief sacrifices nothing. Rather he is punished for crimes he committed.
ReplyDeleteA sacrifice is something given freely with no expectation of payment. In this sense of the word, the thief's death cannot be called a sacrifice at all, any more than paying for a purchase is a sacrifice. Rather, when you pay for a purchase you are given what you are owed. The thief was given what was his due for his crimes according to Jewish-Roman law.
Jesus sacrificed His divine nature for human nature.This was something given freely without the expectation even of its magnitude ever being comprehended. For an infinite God made Himself finite. That is an infinite sacrifice. Then He sacrificed that life as an expression of His love for every human being. That too is an infinite sacrifice.
God, being infinite, gave everything he has away – even His life - to demonstrate His love for humanity. That is the ultimate sacrifice because nothing greater can be conceived.
While the thief's burning in Hell for eternity (if that's what became of him) is a terrible punishment, it cannot be equated in any way to God's sacrifice of Himself for you and I.
I think you miss the point of the Cross entirely. You often repeat the same error in these posts: that for some twisted reason an angry God sacrificed an innocent man. No, a loving God sacrificed HIMSELF as a means of showing us what we otherwhise cannot comprehend – His infinite love for us. That is, the point of the Cross is the fulfillment of all other sacrifices because to simply sacrifice some innocent creature is meaningless to God (the prophets attest to this). Instead the sacrifice acceptable to God is a humble and loving heart that is ready to give of itself for others. God demonstrates this with His own blood. He asks nothing of anyone else that He has not already given Himself.
When you misrepresent something and then attack your own distortion it is called a “straw man” argument and is a kind of rhetorical trick that is disingenuous or even fallacious. Many of these tough questions are actually straw man attacks. So either you misunderstand Christianity or you misrepresent it on purpose. It seems to me that you actually MISUNDERSTAND IT ON PURPOSE in the sense that you need a distorted version of it in your mind to make you comfortable. The more twisted and bizarre you can make it appear the more it satisfies your anger towards it. This, you will note, is different from rejecting something you believe to be false. Most things we reject as false we don't bother distorting them factually so that we feel comfortable with our rejection. In the words of Shakespeare “Me thinks he doth protest too much”